HAVE an affair and save your marriage. That's the controversial advice being dished out to couples whose relationships are in danger of going stale. British sociologist and author Catherine Hakim, in her book The New Rules of Marriage: Internet Dating, Playfairs and Erotic Power, says a "sour" view of cheating has weakened family life by prompting couples to divorce. Hakim says that rather than having an unforgiving opinion on affairs, Britons should learn to be more liberal with their lovers, like the French. The author said that a secret romance should be on a par with having dinner with your long-term partner. Hakim says the French are "masters of seduction", have a "philosophical approach to adultery" and allow their partners off the marital leash. And she believes successful affairs are possible, where neither partner is hurt. Hakim, who works for think tank Centre for Policy Studies and is a former London School of Economics lecturer, says successful affairs are possible where neither partner is hurt. "I am not saying that everybody should do it, and most people do not have affairs," Hakim told the BBC. "The key point is that we need to be more tolerant of them. Sometime they can ruin marriages, but if you take the view that most of them blow over and a good marriage is still a good marriage, we should be a bit more laid back about them like the French, Italians and Spanish." "The temptation is always there for everyone. Total discretion is the absolute rule, the other party should never find out," she said.
i believe the person ur gonna b with for ever u should b able talk about everything and b on the same page and grow with each other it makes u feel so free and happy . im so lucky i met my man 3 yrs ago and no secrets can tell
each other everything never thought that was possible b4 i met mr keen
i had been i a relatioship b4 mr keen where it was like being single and going and cheating not the answer u have to live with that forever not good feeling becoming someone u despise
Total discretion is the absolute rule, the other party should never find out," she said.
People 'happily' have affairs without affecting their marriage until they are caught at which point it's usually over. So all this article is really saying is if you want to have an affair and a happy marriage then make sure your partner doesn't know about it. In my opinion don't cheat and there will be no problems.
Quote by twonewbies affairs ruin marrages, talk openly and try swinging WITH your partener, never know, they might want the same cheaters will never be with us
Hi Twonewbies, I have always found the word " cheaters" to be distasteful and shallow when it does not truly reflect the need for one to openly express their sexual feelings and desires. Couples that have openly discussed " swinging", at times attempted to expose them to the scene in a trusting and secure manner and have not been able to progress any further leave 1 individual satisfied and not the other. Being able to speak openly is a wonderful thing, I know I have tried and tried for many years and been patient and reassuring that it is only an extension to our sex life but had little to no success in progressing this further. To have to bow down to my partners lack of interest in this area, unable to gain further ground in her understanding my feelings and still having a desire to play with other like minded and open people should not render me a cheater. I still remain the loyal father, hard working husband, respectable businessman and member of society that has an inner side that needs satisfying too... We all have feelings and inner desires that the world cannot at times understand. We live in a world of politically correctness and hypocrisy, where the media dramatisation controls our sentiment, both morally and politically and that is not the way it should be. No one has the right to judge another and I have made many acquaintances in the scene that enjoy being around me and find me a pleasant person to know....to me that is a sign of who I am and not the world that is so distant with peoples feelings. Thanks for listening
if your partener doesnt know your having sex with other people then its cheating. dont care how distastful or shallow it sounds, does your partener know? if not what would he/she do if they found out? i doubt they would be happy. cheating doesnt mean your not a "nice" person, doesnt mean you dont love you wife/husband and kids. doesnt mean your not doing your job properly or contributing to society. it just means your cheating on your partener. im not passing judgement on you or anybody else but i wont expose ourselves to somebody who isnt honest to their family. i personally think family is more important then sex. how would you feel without your family, what would your own mum and dad say if it all came out. would sex with strangers fill the void. ive seen the fall out and want nothing to do with contributing to it. just my side of the arguement and like i said not passing judgement on any one person.
Quote by mr_twonewbies ... if not what would he/she do if they found out? i doubt they would be happy. ...
hi mrs_twonewbies - of course it is thew mrs writing the man would never judge another man that way. Well, how do I know you're judging, it is obvious that you do not understand what he has gone through already. He tried your suggestions (uyou have not read his post properly) of suggesting the swinging scene to his wife, but she was not into it - what is the next step then, I bet your only solution is divorce and find a partner who is willing. Maybe it's not that simple. I am surprised that as someone who is on of the open-minded side of society makes this kind of judgment, you are pitching society, specifically his family (mother, wife, etc) against him. If he has tried (as many of us have) top open up his relationship and is not prepared to leave his partner (let's face it the family is more important than our sexual pleasures) then the best option is to do it without his partner, but the last thing he needs is your judging arse coming from above like the voice of God..!
Quote by thedoctor2640 ... if not what would he/she do if they found out? i doubt they would be happy. ...
hi mrs_twonewbies - of course it is thew mrs writing the man would never judge another man that way. Well, how do I know you're judging, it is obvious that you do not understand what he has gone through already. He tried your suggestions (uyou have not read his post properly) of suggesting the swinging scene to his wife, but she was not into it - what is the next step then, I bet your only solution is divorce and find a partner who is willing. Maybe it's not that simple. I am surprised that as someone who is on of the open-minded side of society makes this kind of judgment, you are pitching society, specifically his family (mother, wife, etc) against him. If he has tried (as many of us have) top open up his relationship and is not prepared to leave his partner (let's face it the family is more important than our sexual pleasures) then the best option is to do it without his partner, but the last thing he needs is your judging arse coming from above like the voice of God..! Thanks Doctor, Appreciate you weighing in on this thread and taking the time to form an objective view on it. Yeah, it has been rather hard till now and even harder when you try patiently to reach a common ground that appeases all in the relationship. Few people have the latitude to expand their sexual horizons and alot of it has to do with peoples perceptions and judgements of who we are. The world can learn alot from people that take patience and understanding in their lives and apply that to their everyday experiences and way of life. Once again, appreciate your point of view and keep enjoying lifes little pleasures. Peter
So where is the boundary?
You have a good sex life but she's not interested in swinging. You've discussed it, but she won't budge. So you just go out and have sex with others anyway without telling her?
Or you're not getting enough sex at home, you've discussed it, she won't budge, so you think it's ok to screw around behind her back?
Or she won't swallow, you've discussed it, she won't budge, so you think it's ok to cheat with another woman who will swallow?
Or she won't do anal, you've discussed it, she won't budge, so you think it's ok to have an affair with a women who does do anal?
How about she's stacked on a little weight, you want to have sex with a slimmer chick, the wife isn't losing weight anytime soon so it's ok to go fuck another woman without the wife knowing?
As mentioned earlier, "cheaters" is a distasteful and shallow term. That's also an accurate description of people who cheat. If you can't possibly put up with the limited sex life in your relationship, at least have the courage to say as much to your partner. Tell her that you feel so strongly about it that you're going to have sex with other people regardless of what she says. Then let her decide whether she wants to join you, or accept it (she may say she doesn't want to know about it), or leave you. But you do not have the right to keep the relationship together under false circumstances.
'Affair' is such a loaded and judgmental word in itself. People need to be responsible for their own actions and be prepared for the consequences - good or bad. A partner who sees others outside the relationship should be prepared for any consequences, in the same way that the partner who refuses to shift their boundaries should be prepared. If I play with somebody who is seeing someone else, I don't need to know what arrangements they do or don't have in their relationship. What happens between me and them is between us only. What they do in their relationship is none of my business. There's way too much repression in society around sex. We can spend billions of dollars on weapons and send men and women off to foreign countries to kill or be killed but we shun or judge our friends and family for the things they do sexually. It's a twisted world when we can accept that thousands of people die in conflicts every year but we're abhorred by two people having pleasure with each other. It's fine to say that cheating is cheating but where do you draw the line? Are the people who despise cheaters equally upset at the husband who has a couple of beers, without his wife knowing, when he's not supposed to be drinking alcohol? Or the wife who buys herself a dress when it's not in the budget and she doesn't tell her husband? And what happens when their partners find out? Their partners would most likely be upset initially then adjust their boundaries or reassert them. If they were sexual boundaries that were crossed though, most people are much less likely to forgive the dishonesty. Affairs are not the problem; it's all the baggage and rules we carry with us around sex. There'd be plenty of people judging everyone on this site simply for being a member. "Oh no, if you're in love with someone you should never want to have sex with somebody else." Dishonesty is a part of our lives. It starts when we teach kids about Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny. Full disclosure in everything we do just doesn't work. Do you tell somebody you hate their new hairstyle when they love it? Do you tell your boss about their body odour problem? Do you tell your colleague you can't stand them as a person, or do you keep quiet about it to maintain a harmonious work environment? Only you know whether it's appropriate to even broach the topic with them, and sometimes you can't be sure exactly how they'll react. Everyone knows their own situation and what the best strategy is to have their needs met. In a perfect world, you'd be able to sit down with your partner and discuss everything that's on your mind and you'd reach a mutually-agreeable arrangement. The world is far from perfect though. Whatever you choose for yourself, be prepared for the consequences - they're not always bad either. Remember, there are also consequences for inaction. Jake http://www.swingersheaven.com.au/groups/949/
A cheater is simply that a cheater , when the other half has no idea whats going on your a cheater full stop , and why anyone would want to be involved with someone thats cheating on thier partner has got us ,
If your willing to lie to your partner what lies are you going to spin to someone else you dont know and just want to get in thier pants .
The bullshit meter would be off the scale , cheaters always loose in the end
Quote by nt_lad Are the people who despise cheaters equally upset at the husband who has a couple of beers, without his wife knowing, when he's not supposed to be drinking alcohol? Or the wife who buys herself a dress when it's not in the budget and she doesn't tell her husband?
You pretty much answered this yourself when you followed it with: "And what happens when their partners find out?" If your partner would be extremely hurt and upset to the point of leaving you because of your actions, then to lie to your partner and still conduct those actions behind his or her back is despicable - regardless of whether it's drugs, money or sex. Yes, we agree that many people get a little too precious about sex (eg. Showing strong violence is common in movies, but showing a man's penis is still shocking). But you can't say to your partner "My cheating is actually ok - it's really you who is in the wrong because you're too hung up on monogamy". Whether society as a whole is too prudish or not is irrelevant - in a relationship it's you and your partner's views that matter, and as an individual your partner is allowed to have whatever view they like (just as you are). If that view isn't compatible with your own then you can try to find an agreeable compromise or, if necessary, agree to disagree and just put up with your partner's different views/actions. But to promise your partner one thing and then deceitfully and deliberately break that promise - that's just wrong!
Quote by nt_lad http://www.swingersheaven.com.au/groups/949/
On another note - any chance of minimising that signature a little? Basic netiquette is to keep signatures fairly small and unobtrusive, since they appear on every post you make. Big images repeated everywhere tend to annoy the crap out of other users.
its mr two who said it about cheaters . if you look at the front of it there is a MR there not MRS. what will you have left if your caught cheating by your wife, will she say go ahead f@#$ who you want im going to let you ruin our marrage.
FFS if both parteners dont agree with something it doesnt happen.
CHEATING IS CHEATING saying you dont get enough/good or right type off your wife is a cop out. grow up and keep it in your pants.
just have a good think , imagine yourself living in a little crappy apartment while somebody who is honest lives at your house sleeping in your bed being a husband and dad to your family and yu get a few visits each month.
your parents think your a lowlife and your siblings are disgusted with you, is it worth it
no i havnt cheated on my wife and never would as its a low act
Hi thedoctor2640 and peterthell,
I agree with Mrs Two, if you are having an affair without the knowledge of your wife or partner it is cheating. Political correctness, hypocrisy is here to stay. We judge people everyday by their actions, we name and shame a person if he makes racial slurs a racist. Why is the fact that if society calls someone who has an affair a cheater so hard to swallow? If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it is a duck!
Peterthell, I don't think there is any easy way to crack this nut, but obviously you are unhappy in your relationship. Despite all best intentions, there is no easy solution, but if you are looking for encouragement to justify your actions then sadly you will not get it from me.
Peterthell, don't confuse my statement as judging you, I simply don't support your actions. Here, I would probably ask the question does the end justify the means? At the end of the day do you have a clear conscious, does the feeling of guilt hover when you are with your partner? I am an advocate of if you don't like something change it, the way I see it the future looks bleak if you are having an affair. As difficult as it may sound, tell her the truth in the hope she approves or move on. It is a difficult decision and one which many men in your position have made. I made that same decision many years ago and so glad I had the strength to do so. Remarried, had 3 more beautiful children, never been happier and wouldn't you know it, several years down the track we entered the realm of Swinging lol It was a win win!!
The Bays
we had a party a while back the folks there where couples , the topic of what typifies a swinger couple and what typifies a single male profile was discussed
The reason i am posting this is it indicates where the participants are coming from It was agreed that the couples usually have very full active sex lives and deep trust and strength on there relationships so much so they could entertain expanding the sex and social side to include others.
The single profile typically has no or low sex on a regular basis or at need. They are so desperate for sex they will involve themselves in the swinging scene as they see swingers as easy and indiscriminate sex objects, they have no allegiance to the relationship or no concern for the effect of their actions and the effects it may have on the other participants.
We may not be the best indifferent type of people because we value each other above all else and respect that same quality in others so we care what outcomes occur and what the real price of our pleasure might be, for all concerned.
It appears the more devious a person is the more they justify their behavior when the crux is they arent honest with them selves yet critise a partner for not understanding them and their needs, whilst obviously they lack effect for that person as they havent become as close and honest as a good relationship should.
Rather than deal with their own short comings they expand the failing to third parties who dont care about the situation of others.
This site isnt for fixing marriages and if you have issues you might be better served to deal with them than join a site and take advantage of or vicariously endorse deception.
As to the posts well if you really need for others to agree with you then you really havent resolved your own guilt and you likely never will, until you do the right thing be that the hard or soft option ,not sure we see merit in the loyal father claim.
we do not involve deceptive or unsettled personalities in our play simple many will take a dim view of this thread , but
i am sure other couldnt care less as long as they get a leg over
yes, i agree, fix your own marrage before you start swinging. we have seen a few marrages torn apart from swinging but we have also seen marrages strengthened from it. just make sure your ready for it all.
Mrs two
I am confused, why are guys on here clearly still married but stating they are single or almost single (but talk as though they are still in a committed relationship)?
Also these guys say they can talk openly with their partner; however, they are unable to tell their partner that they have had many acqaintenaces.
If you are married and looking to cheat on your partner (your partner does not know and/or approve of your actions) then you are not SINGLE and you are certainly not swinging.
I think married guys coming on to Swinging sites, classifying themselves as single, falsifying their marital status is inappropriate considering some sites go to great lengths to ensure you verify your profile. i.e. If you are married then your martial status is married not single. Swingers sign up to these sites in the hope we can meet like minded people and it is fantastic that these sites make it so that it is easy to identify who is who through various checks.
We do find it a little disturbing that some people feel it is ok to cheat and yet still constitute their infidelity as swinging. As a couple, we stray away from married people having afairs for all good reasons. We hear so many stories of married males pertending to be single and couples or other single females don't find out until the last moment. No-one wants to be embroiled in an affair that can potentially turn ugly, especially if it began as a lie.
Sites like this one are doing a great job and it is great that we can talk openly about controversial topics, I think some people are confused about the foundation of what is swinging. This lifestyle has brought us together in so many ways it is hard to imagine life without swinging. It is the people (singles and couples) that you meet along the way that makes this lifestyle enjoyable.
The Bays
I liked the idea of swinging and discussed with my wife. She didn't show any interest at all. I tried to bring up the subject several times and mentioned it will improve our sexual life. It still didn't have an impact on her. Today our sexual relationship has become sour and I am left bewildered what to do. I am sure there are many married men in the same situation as myself.
Let's take a situation where wife has absolutely no interest in sex anymore (5 years) and is extremely old fashioned re sexual activity where does one go. A man has needs and when they are not met at home those needs after an extended time become and extreme urge. Yes you still love your wife and get on well in every other way but the fights usually start when male keeps getting rejected. He tends to feel like a dog begging for a bone but never actually gets it, than there comes a time when you start to feel animosity towards her for continually rejecting you. So separation really isn't an affordable option where both wouldn't have enough to start over again after a certain age as you'll never get back on top financially and both have to live in relative poverty. There is no way she wants to even discuss other options eg, swinging, or another sexual partner either M or F. Than one has no other option but to as some here say cheat. To me it's not really cheating in those circumstances it's a matter of if you don't get fed at home one has to go out and eat to meet the hunger that builds up and up over an extended period of time. I for one would love to find a person in my vicinity or a bi couple to join on a regular basis say every month or two depending if I can get away discreetly. But here on the south coast NSW 2 hrs sth of W/gong the scene for this is totally dead. My parents were swingers so I was bought up in a very open household where they didn't hide it and at times had friends over for their swinging parties with us kids at home. At times we had to get up and use the bathroom and could easily see all that was happening in the lounge at the end of the hallway as the house was small. So were exposed to sexual activity from a very young age. Don't get me wrong I DO NOT condone this when kids are present and consider it as child abuse. But it was what it was at the time and nothing can change the past. But it did open me up to see sexual activity as an individuals choice of what ever floats your boat as long as all parties are consenting adults. Who are we to judge what others do, anyone that dares to judge other should first look at their own skeletons in their closets. We all have needs, we are all in different circumstances and without knowing another persons feelings or situation you have no right to judge them.
Let's take a situation where wife has absolutely no interest in sex anymore (5 years) and is extremely old fashioned re sexual activity where does one go. A man has needs and when they are not met at home those needs after an extended time become and extreme urge. Yes you still love your wife and get on well in every other way but the fights usually start when male keeps getting rejected. He tends to feel like a dog begging for a bone but never actually gets it, than there comes a time when you start to feel animosity towards her for continually rejecting you. So separation really isn't an affordable option where both wouldn't have enough to start over again after a certain age as you'll never get back on top financially and both have to live in relative poverty. There is no way she wants to even discuss other options eg, swinging, or another sexual partner either M or F. Than one has no other option but to as some here say cheat. To me it's not really cheating in those circumstances it's a matter of if you don't get fed at home one has to go out and eat to meet the hunger that builds up and up over an extended period of time.
Hi Twonewbies, I have always found the word " cheaters" to be distasteful and shallow when it does not truly reflect the need for one to openly express their sexual feelings and desires. Couples that have openly discussed " swinging", at times attempted to expose them to the scene in a trusting and secure manner and have not been able to progress any further leave 1 individual satisfied and not the other. Being able to speak openly is a wonderful thing, I know I have tried and tried for many years and been patient and reassuring that it is only an extension to our sex life but had little to no success in progressing this further. To have to bow down to my partners lack of interest in this area, unable to gain further ground in her understanding my feelings and still having a desire to play with other like minded and open people should not render me a cheater. I still remain the loyal father, hard working husband, respectable businessman and member of society that has an inner side that needs satisfying too... We all have feelings and inner desires that the world cannot at times understand. We live in a world of politically correctness and hypocrisy, where the media dramatisation controls our sentiment, both morally and politically and that is not the way it should be. No one has the right to judge another and I have made many acquaintances in the scene that enjoy being around me and find me a pleasant person to know....to me that is a sign of who I am and not the world that is so distant with peoples feelings. Thanks for listening
A heart felt and well spoken response. Totally agree with his worlds and the difficulties faced when the desire of one partner decreases after children and over time. Thanks for being so honest.
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