Hey guys n gals, I know this is'nt exactly a swingers issue but it will affect a good number of us, please have a read... GOVERNMENT PLANS TO BAN BULLBARS The most important modification you can make to your 4WD is a bullbar. Not only does it allow you to run a winch, lights and gives you a mounting place for your UHF aerial, most importantly it protects your vehicle and the people inside it against animal strikes. Hidden under the disguise of pedestrian safety, a minority group wants bullbars banned, and what's worse is that the government agrees with them. They want European regulations brought into Australia, and if these regulations (GTR9) are brought in, the aftermarket industry will not be able to make bullbars or even nudge bars comply. Bullbars will be banned. Commonsense (lacking in many government decisions lately) tells us that European regulations don't have any place in Australia and won't work. Our road conditions are very different. Animal strikes are a very common occurrence in Australia. Their spin is that this will only affect new vehicles. However, we know this will eventually mean the ban of all bullbars. 4WD touring in Australia will end. You are probably thinking adopting these regulations is so crazy and absurd that banning bullbars could never happen. Believe me, this is very real and is happening now. This will affect every 4WD owner. Here's how you can stop this: Send the letter below to voice your protest to the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Anthony Albanese. It will take under a minute and could potentially save 4WD touring in this country. The government only listens to one thing, how many votes they stand to lose. With the 4WD community standing together on this, they stand to lose many votes. We need to make a difference, take action and let commonsense prevail. We NEED your response and we need you to take action today. Together we can stop this unAustralian nonsense.
Here in the UK they've been out of favour for a while now, and to be honest I think it's been the right way to go. The majority of people who had them just seemed to be the ones using big cars as a status symbol. After all, do they really need a 4x4 with a huge steel girder welded on the front just to run the kids to school?
On the safety issue, there were some horrific stats regarding the type of injuries to pedestrians, especially kids because their heads tend to be more in line with the bull bars. And in truth I think it's made the car manufacturers sit up and listen, with more effort being put into strengthening the impact zone of newer cars, whilst ironing out the sharper corners and creating more of a 'deflection' surface.
Obviously there are other factors to be considered for driving in Australia, but please don't rule out other options just to maintain the status quo.
Quote by Cubes Here in the UK they've been out of favour for a while now, and to be honest I think it's been the right way to go. The majority of people who had them just seemed to be the ones using big cars as a status symbol. After all, do they really need a 4x4 with a huge steel girder welded on the front just to run the kids to school? On the safety issue, there were some horrific stats regarding the type of injuries to pedestrians, especially kids because their heads tend to be more in line with the bull bars. And in truth I think it's made the car manufacturers sit up and listen, with more effort being put into strengthening the impact zone of newer cars, whilst ironing out the sharper corners and creating more of a 'deflection' surface. Obviously there are other factors to be considered for driving in Australia, but please don't rule out other options just to maintain the status quo.
Thats the difference between Europe and Australia - Kangaroos and Wildlife cause more damage to Australian vehicles EVERY year more than people hitting each other etc and its been #1 for years!
Having traversed our great country extensively for pleasure and around 3 years of almost daily outback 4wd driving for work, passing many a road kill and knowledge of urban deaths or injuries as a result of bull bars, I agree with a general ban of bull bars.
The majority of 4WD vehicles owned (aka Toorak Taxis) and other vehicles adorned with bull bars, rarely, if ever, see an unfenced highway, a dirt road, a 4WD track or travel where there is potential for wildlife hazards. For these vehicles there is no requirement for a bull bar. Ban them I say, but allow those where they are a safety device have them (eg: outback postcodes), interstate runners and responsible members of 4WD clubs.
Quote by nice2benaughty ok so what part of the countryside or city side do you have them banned. look at sydney outskirts, still wildlife as in roos and the occasional wombat that could do some real damage when hit. and inners ydney people obviously do travel at times to the outskirts.
Next questions I see after nice2benaughty comments is who decides on just who is eligible (ref Quote above)? I travel the black top most of the time in my Suzuki Ute, but when I go bush I prefer some protection. Who will decide how much time spent in the bush is bush bashing vs city driving? Who will decide that its fair for some one living back of Bourke to have a bull bar potentially saving large damage bills and therefore costs vs who will pay your bill when you take a once in a year trip to the scrub and hit an animal? Why should the myriad of people with winches in current bars have to rebuild the current bar with some other device to carry the load of a winch fully loaded in recovery work? I acknowledge that any modification to the front end of a vehicle changes the dynamics of human/vehicle impact and therefore does greatly increase the injury to humans. Current bumpers are designed to minimise human injury caused by front impacts and that is a good thing. Maybe the answer is to redesign the whole concept of bull-bars to reflect the characteristics of current bumpers in an effort to both protect vehicles and humans. May be we as taxpayers should demand far less leniency by the judicial institutions for those drivers who cause injury for if you are driving according to conditions, there is a greatly reduced risk of human injury. In 48 yrs of driving with or without bull-bars, I have not yet hit any pedestrian. Its like the gun debate in many respects. The dick heads will always get what they want to carry out their crimes and nuisance activities; whereas those who have shot all their life now PAY for that privilege. In the last few weeks here in NSW, almost daily there has been a reported shooting incident in this state. Similar I think will be the result with this notion of banning bull-bars. It (banning bull-bars) seems about as clever as the NSW decision to force learner drivers to undertake 150 hours of driving experience. Just another huge impost on parents who either have to pay driving instructors OR take time out to spend that time driving with associated vehicle costs. The problem I see here is that the time/financial burden is so huge, that it simply encourages people to find ways to cheat the system. It also makes a licence near impossible to achieve for those on limited incomes. 150 hours of driving experience sure will give the kids some handy driving lessons, but I will wager here and now that it will not alter ATTITUDE in very many drivers at all. Why today on the way to work, two red P-Platers (1 male & 1 female) negotiating separate round-a-bouts were talking on their mobile phones!!!! Did they come through the 150 hrs system? I think so! Just some thoughts and NO, I am not trying to incite invective or heated argument. I would like to hear all sides of the debate delivered in even temper and without too much emotion.
how about we ban useless 4wd's not bull bars ,highly over rated pieces of junk that cost extra to keep on the road and automatic 4WD's would have to be the most useless thing ever , anyone that is serious about 4wding wouldnt have a automatic anyway
If 4wd's are so good why do most of them have winches on the front of them , because they are useless
And Shopping centre car parks should have a area at the furthest point from the centre entrance for them to park in away from all the normal cars
Quote by Renouf Not a viable option. Who decides whether they are needed or not? More politicians or public servants with no idea about the real world?
As I mentioned in my post, postcodes would be an option to determine eligibility, as too being an active member of a 4wd club. Other options could include outback travelling professions such as a geologist, paleontologist or like our gun licensing laws, have a "Genuine Reason" for ownership. I'd rather the extra paperwork than an unnecessary death. For those who 'occasionally' go bush bashing, you would save $$ by hiring a 4wd for a couple of weeks than to run one all year round. As to the winch debate, I'd guesstimate 99% of winches fitted never get used. For 99% of the 1% that have had to use them, they shouldn't be in a 4WD. Roo's, wombats, cows, etc; can do real damage and even kill, whether or not a bull bar is fitted. Simple solution is 'slow down'.
i say yes to bull bars on vehicles in the country areas as it is needed to protect the people in the vehicle. But like all of us if we wish to add onto our vehicle an extra i don't understand why we can't if it protects us in our environment
i think they were more so meaning the people who buy these big cars and dont know or arent used to dirving them and do not look around a school area or their own home and then hit a child who is smaller in height than the car
we all know that children even when told a million times do not always look, so you can't really blame them and not the driver of a car that was being negligent due to having the wrong car for them.
plus you can not compare a van to a 4wd when was he last time you seen someone go buy a hi-ace because the guy down the road owns one
When was the last time you seen a heap of vans taking the kids to school so the mothers can out do other mothers look my vans better than your van lol
Melbcpl01
I agree with most the Bull Bar should be Banned, it is a hazard to the public in general, and causes more injury if involved in an accident I would not like to be involved in any accident with any 4 wheel drive vehicle that has a solid BULL BAR.
SO, I SAY BAN THE BULL BAR
Gotitinone
In regard to this ongoing debate, perhaps I should mention that I am ex military who drove land rovers, etc., for over 20 years. All of them had bulbullbars. There was probably a good reason.
These days I drive a Mazda BT50 4WD towing my home around this great country of ours. I have the 4WD because the 2WD version won't tow the weight. To get a 2WD big enough, we need to go to an Iveco truck or similar. I have a bullbar because I, and my wife, wish to be safe on the road.
I have seen the roadkill on the side of country roads (almost always on major highways) and while I have never hit a 'roo, I have had one hit me. I won. I have also been chased (backwards) by a young, and very angry, steer when I was driving a sedan without a bullbar.
I hate cities, spending most of my time in the outback. I don't go near schools if I can help it, and when I do, I certainly keep an eye out for kids.
Why should I suffer potentially life threatening injuries when I accidentally hit a 'roo or cow because some idiot pedestrian in Sydney, or elsewhere, ignores the basic road rules and steps in front of a car?
The argument about mothers hitting school kids is totally spurious, if the mother is travelling within the speed limit, she will be able to stop in time. If she is not, it doesn't really matter what she is driving, she won't stop in time. And one must ask: Why is she driving that particular vehicle? Is it purely status? Or is it safer (for her and her children) if she is involved in an accident?
Another option might be to ban all cars outside schools, make mum park in the next street and walk to the gate to collect the kids. I rode a pushbike 4 miles (sorry, 6.4 km for the younger folk) to school when I was a kid, mum didn't have a car.
One also needs to ask: "How many of these 'Toorak Taxis' actually have bullbars?
I recall a few years ago when Bob Carr (a non driver) tried to ban 4WDs in Sydney and nothing became of it, except he lost the next election.
Should we go back to the days of a man with a red flag walking in front of a moving car? Might work nicely in the big smoke.
The only question remaining is: If I get killed because I hit a kangaroo, without a bulbar, who do I sue?
Thank you for your email about reports that the Government was planning to ban bull bars.
These reports are not correct.
Thank you for raising this matter.
Yours sincerely
ANTHONY ALBANESE
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a email i receieved from planning and infastructure about banning bull bars
I don't think it matters if they were banned. people are still going get hit by a cars bullbars .It's not the bar that kills people it's the speed and conditions that do.
living and working in the ACT and south coast I travel alot on the major roads and firetrails for work and drive a 4x4 with a bullbar and I've had a number of minor roo strikes and scarey near misses that I would hate to think what would of happened to me with out one.
I would hate to think if they banned them how much vehicle insurance or repairs bills would rise.
Sorry to bring this one back out of the woodwork, but by God some people are ignorant.
They take the attitude of " If i don't like it, it should be banned."
This just makes me so angry.
Well,
it appears there are sooooooooooooooooooooomany opinions :taz: of those both in,and out of the 'know'. :small-print:
It seems obvious then that the Government needs to appoint a penis inspector!!!
Its plain and simple that bullbars are just penis extensions........
Yes some of those school mums too???
The smaller the penis; the larger the is only a fair compenasation,maybe even paint it red???
And we could have a clitoris inspector,composing testing Monday morning Assembly for the school mums???
Anyways :undecided:
Just my 2 cents..............
to the people saying they need to be banned:
do you really think its going to make a difference getting hit at say 60kph by a 3tonne vehicle without a bar or with a bar?
the pedestrian is screwed either way
Quote by beach_voyeur to the people saying they need to be banned: do you really think its going to make a difference getting hit at say 60kph by a 3tonne vehicle without a bar or with a bar? the pedestrian is screwed either way
Will not make one bit of difference maybe banning dumb pedestrians would be a better idea
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On the safety issue, there were some horrific stats regarding the type of injuries to pedestrians, especially kids because their heads tend to be more in line with the bull bars. And in truth I think it's made the car manufacturers sit up and listen, with more effort being put into strengthening the impact zone of newer cars, whilst ironing out the sharper corners and creating more of a 'deflection' surface.
Obviously there are other factors to be considered for driving in Australia, but please don't rule out other options just to maintain the status quo.
